72. Writing Copy That Speaks to Your Ideal Client with Megan Walrod

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Megan Walrod, Founder of Live Your Yes, is an award-winning author, copywriter and marketing coach. For the past decade, she’s supported hundreds of women entrepreneurs to build profitable and purposeful businesses, whether that looks like having multiple six or seven-figure or donating money and volunteering their time to causes they care about, or whatever their version of success is. And as always having more fun in business in life. Megan encourages her clients to Live Your Yes, knowing that when we live an inspired life, we are more magnetic and create more success for everyone. 

Rachel: So all right. Do you want to just tell everyone like little about you and your own words, and what we’re gonna dive into today? 

Creating That Ripple Effect

Megan: Absolutely. And I just want to say I’m so honored to be here. And it’s so fun we’ve been we’ve known each other for a couple of years, I think now and so just to be able to dance with each other this way. Today, it’s like an absolute delight for me. Because I know that who you are, and what you bring to the world is that inspiration, empowerment of more lightworkers to share their gifts. And so it’s a major ripple effect. So getting to contribute to you to all those of you who are watching who are with us, it’s like, this is what lights me up – that ripple effect. 

I also want to speak into how copywriting and words really work with my clients. I have both clients that I write for and clients that I coach on how to write. So it’s the model of “I am fishing for you” vs “I am teaching you how to fish.” 

Because copywriting is actually one of the most essential skills to have as a business owner. You’ve got to be able to see some of these key principles. That’s what I’d love to share today in our conversation. 

We, as business owners, want to know how to talk about what we do in a way that inspires people to want to say “That’s exactly what I’ve been looking for,” or “Where have you bet all my life?” It’s what empowers us as business owners.

I know one of your gifts is supporting your clients and telling their stories. And so often our story comes out of our pain point, our own struggle with it. And it’s not like I came out of the womb and was like, I’ve got superpowers with words, and here’s how I’ll use them in my lifetime. I didn’t even know copywriting was a thing. 

It wasn’t until I was trying to promote workshops in one of my earlier businesses and nobody was signing up that I was like, Wait a second. I’m amazing at what I do. Where’s the disconnect? And that’s when I realized there was this thing called marketing copywriting, and you could do it from the heart. And so I studied and learned, and that became a way that I got to use my superpowers to support my clients in changing the world with the words, with the word sale.

Rachel: In my eyes, the big stopping point that most heart-based entrepreneurs have is not knowing how to say their message. I mean we go into all these, “I don’t know what I’m really saying. Nobody’s signing up.”

What do you feel for that person who’s listening to this and knows that it’s probably something personal that they need to address? What would you say to that person? You need to take this step first before you can actually hear what you want to say, so that you don’t step into confusion.

Finding Your True Message

Megan: I just can feel the anguish of that space of that person. Because I know that in me. And I love that you’re asking that as the preface. For you feeling confused with your message – how do I articulate it? – the biggest first step that has worked for myself and my clients is the inner stuff. 

I don’t know if you talk about it as inner game or mindset. I talk about it as the energetics and the pragmatics. The energetics is that inner conversation of when you are really clear. That no matter what, you’re going to do what it takes to share your gifts with the world. That’s that heart base conviction. It’s multi-layered, but you know there’s an inner critic. 

I know, there’s an inner head tripper. That the moment I start to share my gifts with the world, they’re like bouncers on the edge of the comfort zone, who are going to be like, Are you sure? Are you sure you want to do this? Let’s just go back in bed and curl up and just like numb out. 

No. Do the thing that’s gonna terrify you. That you’re actually here to do. Having the awareness that those bouncers are not a sign. They’re not real. They’re telling a bunch of BS. So it’s the awareness that they’re going to show up, they’re not a sign that anything’s wrong. They’re actually a sign that you’re headed in the right direction.

Rachel: I’m so happy that you brought it up in phase one part. And I just want to reiterate for everyone, that fear is going to come in, and it will rob you every day, in the same way that it probably robs you in some other areas of your life. 

But what do you say is like that next step that’s gonna come in? You’re really here when you’re gonna feel when you’re feeling not scared?

Being Fearless In Your Messaging

Megan: Yes. So that’s the end the celebrating that and allowing that to actually be fuel to keep going. I hear that all the time, “I don’t know the message,” or “I don’t know the words.” 

So the next step is energy. There’s that energy of the fool in the Tarot who is just so lit up by life, so in their magic, that there’s an energetic gift of the fool, where when you can just tap into your passion for changing lives and what it is you want to do, when you can actually talk with your passion, and let the passion embody you. 

You might be thinking, “I am so lit up about this, but I’m not quite sure what this is going to look like on a marketing page.” But if you can find someone to coach you through that space, they’re able to ask questions and get at center of the message you want to say.

Rachel: I love that. It’s tangible. Here’s what you can do today. Here are these questions that you have to be asking yourself every day, and everything that you’re talking about. I think that not only is it such an important topic right now, because we’re all up against these thoughts of “What should I say? And should I be expressing myself in this way?” 

We’re always up against that in our whole life. I feel like that’s how I built my business. I just said, “I have no idea.” My deep, heartfelt sense either sadness or excitement for helping people overrun any marketing plan. And it was in working with a person like you, and understanding the mindset and the business stuff and knowing those fears are always going to be there. Don’t make an excuse. Make it fuel.

Creating A Bridge Between You And Your Customers

Megan: Yes, exactly. Exactly. So the questions. It’s super pragmatic, I agree with that. I really want you to have something to walk away from this with. And so there are multilayers.  But we want to make sure we’re all doing work that we know we’re here to do, that we love. That’s an expression of our unique soul. 

So getting to include yourself in your message is key. However, the way that I view copywriting and marketing is you’re creating a bridge, from your heart to their hearts, from your world to their worlds. 

It’s important to look at who is struggling because I know you directly connect with your people around like, what is your story? And that’s your selling point? So when you look at that pain point that you’ve gone through, who else is struggling with that? What are those struggles? How is this showing up for other people? What are they struggling with right now? What is it that they want instead that I can help them with? 

And here’s the ninjas secret that’s so simple and profound: How are they talking about it? I want that. That’s the part that I feel that people can go into a little more. Because that’s when a coach says, “I am doing everything, I wrote this copy on my page or the social media,” and I think the disconnect is that we get caught up as the entrepreneur, instead of saying, “Let me step into their shoes.” 

And before you freak out thinking it’s all your fault, and you messed up and that you must have put together a program that’s not right, or launched this course or this membership, to actually say, “Am I not using the right words? Or am I not saying things, Do you find that after eating, you just feel sick and nauseous or you feel tired?”

Rachel: So how do you actually have somebody step into that role of understanding?

Market Research

Megan: Yes, so. So #1, a great way is to actually do market research, and interview people. I always recommend five at a minimum or five plus. 10 people is good too. So you can actually see the common themes across the board. Because if you just interview three people, and you get three totally different sets of information, you’re like, Oh my gosh, I don’t know what to do. 

So if you do five to a dozen, you start to see what are the themes and what you are you really looking at? What are those urgent challenges they’re struggling with that they’re actually willing to invest money and get support around? So that’s a big one. 

That could even be part of the market research. And it doesn’t have to be complicated. You look at who are some people you actually already know who might be struggling with these kinds of things. Ask them if you can have a 20-30 minute conversation with them. Ask them these questions. What what are the biggest challenges you’re facing right now with your health, with your relations, with your health coaches, with your health, with your energy levels.

Let them give you the words and take notes. They are going to actually write your copy for you. So what are the biggest challenges what they want instead? Yes, I see you writing that in there. That’s great.

Rachel: My question and maybe this is even to bring clarity into where I feel most coaches get stuck. I do believe everyone does this, meaning they go and they do their market research. They ask these questions. So I feel like most coaches or heart-based entrepreneurs, they’re doing step one. 

They feel that they know what the problems are. They get to that next point of trying to understand the struggle. I would say that the urgent challenge, I think that’s the Ninja, that may be harder. I feel like where they get stuck – and I’ve seen you really pull that out from people – is that lack of confidence that they’re not showing. 

And because of that, it’s not actually bleeding into their launch copy or their social media, or what they’re saying. So can we actually break this down. I’ve worked with you on amazing launches, where we actually break down this element of believing in your copy and how to really pull out those urgent problems and showcase them.

How To Believe In Your Copy

Megan: Yeah. And so one of the common themes that I see when I’m working with clients, whether I’m actually writing for them or coaching them on is focusing on the gold of who you are the gifts that you bring in the water you swim in. 

So what we tend to do is not see it, and not value it, and make it harder and complicated. Because the things that are so easy to me, the things that are so easy to you, it’s like we forget that our potential clients would actually pay lots of money to get that support. 

You might feel like, “Well, those are building blocks, one, two, and three. I like moved on from there.” So it’s slowing down. actually getting that confidence boost of, “Okay, that thing that’s so easy for me is actually really valuable.”

So how can we start to have that internal confidence, and then put words to it? You are asking specific questions. So I wonder if maybe a couple of examples would help.

Rachel: I think the biggest problem is people getting stuck. They’ll all have their launch copy or hired somebody. But then there comes to this lack of conversion. And it’s not when I even looked at the copy. I feel that it’s not understanding. And from your marketing perspective, not understanding how to take those urgent pains, and flip them. And really step into the sales. 

How To Step Into Sales Using Copy 

Megan: Yeah, because I think that’s also the problem with heart-based marketers. We’re like, “Oh, well, how about a sugar program for Thanksgiving.” If we really take that example, why is that the sugar program for your ideal client? What is the emotional connection? What are these obstacles, these things that are stopping them in their life? And I feel that that is more sales marketing, which is what I feel really creates that conversion.

And that’s the urgency. And it’s being willing to speak into the cost of your potential clients not taking action. So when you can paint the picture of, “Are you struggling with any of this? Would you like this instead?” You have to keep going. 

The steps you have to keep building that bridge. It can be done in a heart-based way or it can be done in a fear-based way. But that’s what we’re not talking about that here. It’s painting the picture for them to see and listen. 

For example, heart disease is up for women and I had clients who are doing meditation programs for these women. And so they spoke about the rate at which women are struggling with heart disease, and all of these different things without getting support. 

They used phrases like, “We don’t want to see you become that statistic. We don’t want you to go another way struggling with migraines or struggling with your gut health, having to leave the table at Thanksgiving, cuz you’re not able to actually sit there with the family.”

They created that sense of urgency of why act now. What’s the cost if you don’t get support? As well as some of the strategies that can be used for launch. You are giving them incentives of why now – whether it’s early bird pricing, whether it’s special bonuses that disappear that are only available for the first 5,10, or 50 people. Those are some of those additional things that you can add to your packages that give people reason to why by now, in addition to tapping them into that cost. 

Rachel: Step one. I always say you got to know the pain and the pleasure. And that’s the part I heard from you. It’s like, play that out. Don’t just say, I work with moms who have kids who have food allergies, and they’re worried about their kids.

That’s just like a little water on the table. But if we really go into why is she worried? What can potentially happen to her child? What would be the worries that she has? Did she have her own food allergies? Did she have her own gut stuff? Was there something in her life? Like, where’s her urgency? 

Can you kind of expand on that? So it’s like if that first nurture email even was going out, where we’re leading them to this program that’s for moms for their kids. What would be the process that you take somebody through if you are working with me or anyone else on identifying what are the biggest problems? How does somebody identify that so that we can take that next step? To the urgency bridge?

How To Build Urgency In Your Copy

Megan: So a couple of things first. These questions are so rich, because they bring up several different things. 

So first, I call them the four play emails, as far as like you’re warming people up, you’re letting them know something is coming, you’re speaking into these pain points, these challenges. 

One of the, and I’ve seen you do this really powerfully, especially in social media, one of the ways that you can actually do this is sharing a vulnerable story, like share the story of your own struggle with your kids allergies, and how, when misdiagnosed, it impacted you with the late nights, the not sleeping. Those kinds of things create so much trust and connection with the potential clients. So those kind of vulnerable stories, or client stories can do so much to help your potential clients see themselves benefiting from that.

There’s another form of email where it’s helping someone with diagnostics, like, “Hey, you may have been approaching this issue by doing X, Y, and Z. That’s not working, is because of A, B, and C. That’s why on my master class next week, I’m going to walk you through the exact steps you need,” Or, “There’s nothing wrong with you. There are ways you can approach this. I’m going to give you the roadmap for that.”

Rachel: I love that one. Because I always hear from coaches, “Well, I’m not a born storyteller.” And they more are from that perspective of like, “I’m a boring teacher.” I always say it doesn’t have to be you. Maybe it’s not your own story. Maybe but I love that diagnostic one. So just tell just say that diagnostic one again because that was like gold.  

Megan: So the diagnostic –  you think about yourself as like the trusted adviser, the doctor, someone’s coming to you with a sales page saying, “Why isn’t this converting?” or “This skin stuff that’s just not healing, like, what’s wrong? Why aren’t all these dozens of things working?”

So the diagnostic is looking at “Listen, here’s what you may have tried. Here’s the issue. Things X, Y, and Z you may have tried, huh? And now you’re wondering, why isn’t changing What’s going on? What have I done wrong? The reason it’s not working is because of a B, and C. So to actually heal this, not just short term, long term, you’ve got to look at A, B, and C.”

Now, you don’t go into all of the answers in a diagnostic post, but you either invite them to your free thing, or you give them a tip of the iceberg nuggets.

So that diagnostic email in theory, if we’re thinking about launching it anytime, Cyber Monday, Black Friday, New Year, Valentine’s Day, Easter, I mean everything. We’re really even thinking about sending some insights, maybe you’ve been struggling with this. And maybe you’ve been told you should do this. And you’re still in this 1-2-3. I’m going to be doing a workshop in my group, or I’m going to be doing a webinar on three reasons that your skin is not healing from that smile.

Repurposing Your Copy Across Platforms

Exactly, exactly. And this is the thing that people want to see, because they’ve tried so many things. And that’s the cool thing, too. That’s what I wanted to say earlier. In your sales copy you can speak to them and say, “I know, you may have tried X, Y, and Z before”. 

So that can also be repurposed as a bit of copy on the sales page. Because part of the role of the sales page is to educate your people on why these other things haven’t worked. Because one of the things – this is kind of a ninja strategy with marketing copy – is looking at, what are those concerns? What are those issues that could stop someone from signing up to work with you? Well, how is this different from what I’ve tried before? I’ve already invested $1000s.

So acknowledging, what are those objections? And how can you address those in the copy so that you’re dissolving those objections? You’re moving them closer to saying yes. So even even if this was somebody who’s not doing this larger launch, but they’re in the beginning, or they are doing a membership, open cart, or all these different things that people are doing, we have to always be in the nurture zone and bring people in and go past just what everyone else is saying. 

You really need to step into their shoes and say, “Maybe you have been extremely struggling with this current theme in the industry or this current theme with X Y Z.” And then you could even bring them to that diagnostic webinar, invite them to your workshop, invite them to your Live, invite them to anything using the diagnostic. 

Or even nurturing, like, “Hey, my friend dealt with this. Or my sister had this. It’s one of the big reasons I’m a coach.” Really bring them either way to your call to action. Then take the objections, which I know usually are right about five to six on the sales page, the top ones, and those actually are your open cart emails.

There are all different ways you can send them out. I’ve done it before, where it’s like, these are the biggest three questions that I’ve been getting from people who are on the fence, wondering if this is for them.  These three big questions are concerns that people are having. So you can address it that way really explicitly. Or it can be more implicit. Say that one of the big concerns might be around time. Like, I’m a busy mom, and I’ve got these kids and I’ve got these issues, how am I going to take time for this. So it’s speaking directly into it – implicitly into it. And you can even show them how your program will help them save time in the long run. 

So absolutely the open cart as well – get as the close to closing cart as you can. Like in your last 48-24 hours. That can also be a great time to say, “Hey, listen, I’ve been getting a lot of these questions. Here are the top ones.” And again, that can be repurposed from your Frequently Asked Questions page. 

So I’m all about repurposing the content you’re using and the open cart/close cart from your sales page. These are all like repurposed little nuggets. And even when it comes to the nurturing that leads into the next promo, the nurturing can be tips that you shared in that last masterclass, tips that you shared in that last program, Now you’re pulling those out as golden gems. 

One of the things that I see for a lot of heart based service based entrepreneurs is they they’re afraid to promote a lot because it might be beyond your stretch point. But you can promote in a way that is still giving value. You can promote in ways that your emails by giving some tips, some inspiring inspiring stories, or reminding them that they’re not alone, reminding them there is a way forward. That actually creates a lot of generosity of spirit and trust so that your promo is delivering that value in and of itself, as well as encouraging them to take the next step. 

Rachel: I’ve seen you actually do this in email, and I remember seeing it and being like, Oh, snap. You had one of our clients pull an old masterclass that she had done and you put it as a snippet you said, ”This is only five minutes of the master class,” but the template of that email is, “This is how amazing our experience will be. This is a masterclass that I did. I’m gifting this to you. Or I want you to see and experience the amount of value that you’re going to consistently see from me over and over.” 

Can you share about that template? Because when somebody says, oh, should it be this way? My brain explodes, because there are so many ways to talk to our people. And as you really mentioned, each one of us have very different kinds of clients. So understanding that there’s a lot of different ways to speak to people and that maybe what converts for one person doesn’t always convert for another. Or maybe they’re not addressing those obstacles or objections enough. 

I think that this template squashes a lot of those objections. I’ve spent a lot of money on this before, I don’t have time, I’m busy, I’m working a 9-5. All of these are really time and money objections.

Give Your Audience A Taster

Megan: Exactly. And so how those tasters can work to dissolve those objections is basically giving them an idea of what comes next. Who doesn’t love when we used to be able to walk down the streets back in the day, when we used to be able to give out samples or appetizers. Who doesn’t love a taster of what’s to come. We love it, love it. And so when you can give your people a taste or have doors closed next week, but the program’s already started. Give them a 10 minute inside peak. Because people love that sense of getting to see behind the scenes getting to see a taste of it. It could be a 10 minute video clip, it could be the full hour long training, it could be you upload the audio to SoundCloud, so they get to listen to it.

Rachel: I think the biggest problem that we’ve done with marketing emails is marketing is so expansive. And I do think each one of us has a different way of showing up. So it feels overwhelming when we’re stepping into that email and saying, if I were here on the fence, and really thinking of every objection that will be heading my way – how can I take that and shove it in. I think one of the easiest is to show this is telling them, “This is what it’s gonna be like to go through this course.” Grab testimonials from people. Or keep speaking to people in that same way and tell them look what we did here, look at this response from people in this group.

Why Testimonials Are Gold

Megan: Yeah. So there’s a few things that I want to highlight: being able to share testimonials from people about that experience. Testimonials are gold. There’s social proof that working with you creates those results. So that’s high in email, sales pages, that kind of thing. 

The taster of what it’s like to work with you, whether it’s a 10 minute clip, a masterclass that gives them an experience of you that are there. It’s building connection, it’s building trust, it’s also building a sense of, Oh, she’s giving valuable content that can actually help me solve an issue in my life. So it’s serving the time and money objections, it’s really important to make sure you always do your work. 

So any money static, time static that we’ve got, it’s going to be reflected. So you have to do your work so that you can then be really clear and have conviction on the value of your program. And so when you can speak into the return on investment, not promise, because that gets tricky, but when you can speak into the return on investment, and another fun thing to do in your copy is look at, okay, this, this training we’re going to do is $297. What would you spend $297 on over the course of X number of weeks? You’d spend that amount on Starbucks, or you’d spend that amount.

Now, just like that, I actually said, this comes out to, I think it was like, $1.50 a day, something like that. 

Rachel: I wrote down what a lunch and a kombucha at Whole Foods would be. And I said, I guarantee you that you spend this amount of kombucha for yourself at Whole Foods. Let’s just say you’ve spent this amount and your friends spent this amount – because I was doing a two for one. But when I’ve also done it single, I said, Imagine you’re spending $1 a day to actually be in community with somebody who’s giving you this guide, sharing on XYZ, really going through the benefits of knowing that that person buys the coach, and not just the product. And that’s the part that we forget. And one thing I just want to say, guys, for any of you, we are talking about groups and memberships, but this same applies to your 1:1. I love that. Look what it’s like to coach with me and do that taster in your newsletter for the month because the goal is to get conversions.

Megan: Exactly, exactly. It can be used for the 1:1, it can be used for your $14 products that a free gift leads to, it can be used for all of this. And that comparison is so powerful because it gives them a reality check. And it can be a simple sentence of “You spend more on your daily life. Or books on your Mac.” So it can be broken down super simple like that. The one on one the social proof. There was another question you asked.

Rachel: Oh, there was a question that I also wanted to ask. I love that you brought up sending them an email and really believing in it. And, and I think it would be great for that person who’s starting, or they’re planning their New Year’s launch. They’re planning the first two weeks of December when it’s so easy to kind of get people in for a lower cost thing. 

What is kind of your typical nurture? Do you have a typical email series set that you love and that you feel is a no brainer?

Go-To Email Series For Launches

Megan: Yeah. So there’s a few things. There’s three that you can use. There’s the first invite that can be just a super direct, this is what it is, like, these are the benefits of it. This is for you, if you’re struggling with XYZ. Come and check it out, just direct, like straight up, then you can have one that is more of the vulnerability. Like this is the one that might share your story about why you care so much about this, and why you’re offering this how you came to offer this. And this is when you might have one main story you share about your work. There’s always always different versions of that story. 

So like one of my clients, for example, this ties into the vulnerability like nutrition coach, health coach, like she had one story. And then she had the story about how she knows about it. She knows all about emotional eating. But when her dad died, she found herself there in the living room, downing a bag of sweet potato chips, eating the whole thing, drowning her grief in a bag of chips. And that became a story that she used to create a whole lot of not pity or sympathy but more of like, I know how easy it is to go into this place of blame and shame and follow into those old behaviors. And holidays are one of the most triggering times we fall into those. 

So she used a new story that some might say, Oh my gosh, I’m not going to use that story, it positions me so poorly, but it actually helped, she was able to talk about it. A genuine, vulnerable story to present their past. And then that leads to the invitation. 

How To Target Your Email List

You can start to look at, depending on where you’re at with your audience. And, you know, I’ve worked with clients who are just starting off clients who have like a large online email list and we’ve actually looked at how to target their list, what are the unique challenges they’re having within this umbrella problem that you can speak into, and we send out targeted sequences to those groups. 

Now, you might just have one group right now. And you’re like they’re struggling with migraines, or skin issues, or whatever it is. So you can speak to the different facets of what they might be struggling with, that this free thing or this pain thing is addressing. So again, in case they’re like, Well, my issue with Adrenal Fatigue or it’s with the energy, or I don’t have the skin issues, I have this or I have this. So it can be a this is for you, if kind of email that breaks down some of those specifics.

Rachel: Let me just ask for clarification: if you have a list of people, let’s just say, your niche is hormone. And you do have, you know, women who are generally like late 40s. And there are some who have skin issues and adrenal issues. There’s the umbrella of every different issue. But would you really polarize down in that email and say, “I’m hosting this class, I know many of you struggle with,” and lift them and say, “and what I’m going to be doing is targeting the following issue and breaking it down so that we’re talking about the gut microbiome and hormones, blood sugar, and hormones.” Would you suggest doing that?

How To Speak Directly To Your Audience

Megan: Yes, with a slight adjustment. So you’ve got to keep in mind too, that’s kind of like the diagnostic email that I was talking about before. Your people might not really know what they’re struggling with as a hormonal issue, they might have, they might think microbe is some new Mac product. I know, you’ve got smart people. And there’s things that are so obvious you might be like, just tell me that you’re going to show me how to feel better.

So there’s a time to speak into that. It’s like the dance of knowing how to speak into using their language problems, what they want instead, and you’re going to speak into how to get that. So it’s not getting so far into the academic or the medical or the technical that you lose them. Yet, it is enough to help them see how and why this is different.

Rachel: So what I hear you say is for anybody who is getting their Botox together, and doing a Black Friday, or cyber or launching in January, you’re really planning your launch right now and starting to drip out. Would you advise to look at these different types of topics that you’ve covered today and to start testing them out?

If you’re doing it for January, start testing out. If you’re doing it for Black Friday, or the first week of December, like an early holiday, just say That’s it, I’m going to commit to this certain type of topic, and to map out your emails with intention first, and then go back and fill in the blanks.

Mapping Out Your Emails

Megan: I love that question. It kind of reminds me of one of my side passion projects is writing a novel and they have these two expressions of like, are you a plotter? Are you a planner or a pantser? Do you plan it out in advance? Or do you just sit down and like by the seat of your pants? So it really depends on what kind of creator you are. So I know that kind of helped to plan it out. Be like, Okay, I’m gonna send these four emails over this week. Here’s the themes. 

Rachel: That’s a great idea. Yes, absolutely. 

Megan: That can help to see the big picture, and you might get off a call with a client be like, I’m so fired up about this topic that just came through, I have to write about something now because it’s so speaking into that. 

Because that’s energy that we’re bringing and you are like such a powerful example of this because you get so lit up and you so care about your people. And you’ll get so fired up about things that when you can write or do a Facebook Live from that, that energetic space that has often a bigger impact and a bigger engagement, because people can feel your realness, your lightness, your energy about it. So I would never want you to stifle that to go with what the plan was, let that come through, and then adjust the plan accordingly.

Rachel: And so, one, I really love that for so many reasons. I do think understanding how you thrive in your creative flow, and not trying to do what somebody else does. Because I know for me, I am that person. I’ll plan. I know, generally, but I have to be on top of what is happening currently, or it doesn’t feel authentic to me. It doesn’t mean that anyone else would know it. But I can stand strong with conviction. 

And I, I also love that you brought up the fact that a lot of what I feel is a great topic is confidence. And a lot of us can go and we can be certified and we can go through all this education. But there has to be this confidence. And you said it a few times where you hands down believe that this is the absolute path for your person. So whether you have the nurturing emails or whichever type away, and then breaking it down and know how many Am I going to send? And am I doing the last call what feels right, but also knowing that you’re not an inconvenience if you come with these value based ideas?

Taking Action In Your Copy

Megan: Mm hmm. Exactly. There are 2-3 three things I want to say before we go. One is for your community, for those of you who are listening, watching this later now, like my invitation would be to look at one or one or two or three of the things that you’ve heard from this conversation, that you want to be in action within the next 24-48-72 hours. 

So rather than feeling potentially like oh, my God, that’s so much. Where do I get started? Pull the things that are your next steps, put them in action, come back and listen to it. So I just want to speak into that. I also want to speak into how important it is to write from that passion and that feeling place. 

But be very aware, when the mind says, “I don’t feel like writing today. I don’t feel like doing it today.” That’s where that really requires us to step into. Yep. But my people are looking for me today. And so there’s the showing up for that with the confidence. 

Finding Your Confidence

And then there’s one other piece that I want to speak into is when we talked in the beginning about getting in their shoes, their struggles, what they’re looking for. Another hack, if you find yourself like in your head or outside of your heart space and not feeling like it questioning your confidence. Confidence doesn’t come by sitting on the sidelines. Confidence actually comes by being an action. 

And so when you can create that flip of like, what do my potential clients need to hear from me today? Like, take an action, do that Facebook Live, send that email, that’s what creates the confidence. So just rather than like waiting for it to come and then going into judgment, because you’re like, Where’s my confidence? What can I share the day that’s going to really serve someone? And like, right to that one person and then watch the confidence come from there.

Rachel: Right? That is so true. I mean, I I think we all think that it’s going to just like come like a basketball and going to just arrive. But it doesn’t happen that way. And the people that I know who consistently show up and really learn about their audience. It is true that failure is through standing when it didn’t go right and when an email sequence completely stopped when you completely missed the mark of edits.

It’s hard, but I really think it’s in those moments of pure honesty, and self reflection. It’s not saying it’s the algorithms. No, actually, it really wasn’t good. And you missed the mark, but it’s okay. 

Megan: I’m so glad you brought that up. Because actually, I was going to write an email about that recently, about when we look at results only and say, Oh, I was planning this to be a six-figure,  five-figure, seven-figure, whatever it is. And here’s where I came in. When we just look at the numbers and those results, the tendency is to go into judgment, which collapses, all opportunity to actually have awareness of

So one invitation is to let go of judgment, and actually look at what is this showing me? So when I do a master class on this topic, this attracts this kind of people, or this offer isn’t a match for them. This other offer is a better match. Who is this offer a better match for? 

I want to start looking at that. What are these people who are actually showing up to that kind of master class? What is it they’re actually wanting? And so it becomes like we are mad scientists. We look at what did this show me about my business and my offers that I can learn from to actually fine tuning it, and create something different next time.

Rachel: Great point. Whenever people say, Well, I am really thriving in my 1:1, or Oh, I’m really thriving in these groups. But you know, nothing else is working. It’s not that nothing else is working, it’s that you don’t have piece or you haven’t taken the time because that judgment, that feeling of failure comes in. You haven’t taken the time to say, Hmm, maybe I need to break down these different personalities more within and, and step more. 

I love that we’ve talked about this so much. It isn’t just stepping into their shoes. It’s like you said, understanding how they speak, understanding their really big fears. And it isn’t like oh, that my blood sugar won’t ever get there. It’s these fears of five years down the line or ten years. Fears about their family. You are really pretending you’re a movie director, and you’re playing around with these different actors and actresses. And I always think there are tons of opportunities within our business. We just have to be willing to see them and understand everyone isn’t going to have the same behavior because we’re not all the same human beings and marketing is pure psychology.

Why Copy & Marketing is Psychological

Megan: It totally is. It’s absolutely psychology. And I just want to speak into that. When we embrace our business, our marketing is like the adventure of business or the adventure of life, right? Like I recently moved to Oregon, I’m having so much fun exploring like new hikes and new mountains and this and that, and like that spirit of adventure. Okay, I ended up on a mountain last weekend where there was snow, I wasn’t anticipating that you know what I mean? But I didn’t look at it as I did something wrong, or the mountain did something wrong. And so I should just give up and not keep going. So bringing in that same perspective to the launch to the marketing of like, this is an adventure how much fun can I have?

It doesn’t have to be hard. I get to just keep exploring and seeing what works and what works better now and what doesn’t work and play with all of these different possibilities.

Rachel: I love that you said that somebody said a statement of like, oh my god you’re great. I’m working on my website copy as a mindset law of attraction coach, I’m doing all the client research etc. But I feel like I’m going in circles. I have doubts and fears I may not be doing it right and have no sales when I launch which is causing me to procrastinate. I need to get my website up and in tears

I can definitely handle a lot of those. And I even begged Mike and said, Megan come back and teach again because I know what makes her different is your ability to go really deep in the heart. Really and I would say a lot of copywriters stay on the marketing part. And do you want to even just say because they think you even touched on this with the sales page like how to really make the sales page showcase who you are, and maybe just your few minutes and then I’ll answer some questions after you go of how do you not go in circles?

How To Get Into The Right Headspace To Write Copy

Megan: I think that’s how to point circles, right? There’s a couple things. So first, I want to extend this invitation for anyone who’s interested in talking about getting more support that would complement what they’re receiving from you, I’m happy to do a free consultation, I’ll share, it’s the free Copy That Converts With Heart Consultation. 

So if that is something that anyone is interested in, as far as not spinning. The biggest thing is to create a pattern interrupt because when we’re spinning, we’re in our head. I’m a recovering head trooper so I know all about this. So the biggest thing that stops spinning, is recognize you’re spinning, walk away from the computer, go engage in some activity that’s going to get you into your heart into your body. Whether that’s dancing, whether that’s going for a hike, whether that’s go walking. And then get support, reach out to your coach, reach out to your community, and then get something in place so that there’s some accountability of, okay, in the next 24 hours, I want to write a draft of my homepage. 

Break it down, because often we’re spinning because we’re like, I got to write a whole sales page or a whole this today, no, you know, break it down into pieces. Everything we talked about today can be applied to a website, to knowing your person, to speaking from that place. 

Rachel: What I’ve learned over time is when I’m spinning, I have to get in the car, I take a drive, and I will pick up my phone and talk into my phone. Or I will call a friend, or I will call my husband be like can you write this down while I’m talking? And I find that it helps us to come out of that massive overwhelmed writing. And that’s a good strategy no matter what you have to write a website, social media sales page, anything.

Megan: I love that strategy, I use Boxer. I’ll go for walks and just be like, if I was being totally unedited, and just saying what I want to say this is what I’d say. And then you go back through and listen and total jumps. 

Rachel: Yes. Well, thank you so much. I’m gonna finish this up with just answering a few questions. I really, really appreciate it. I mean, I think we talked about 25 different elements that really could be added in and it’s, as you said, it’s not just an email. It’s in a social media post. It’s constantly addressing these different aspects that you spoke about today. 

Megan: Exactly. Thank you for having me.

Rachel: Oh, wow. Big kisses lady.

Great. All right. My homework for you guys is to go back to this video and write down which aspect of copy feels most in alignment with you. Because remember, copy can be on a website, it can be on our social media post, it can be in our emails. 

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