If you’re doing everything “right” for your sleep and still waking up exhausted, tossing and turning at night, or lying in bed with your brain running a mile a minute, the problem might not be your nighttime routine.
It might be what your brain has learned to do when you get into bed.
In this episode, I’m sitting down with licensed psychologist Jessica Meers to talk about the psychology of sleep, insomnia, and why some of the things we do to compensate for a bad night of sleep can actually keep the cycle going.
Jessica specializes in treating insomnia without medication using Cognitive Behavioral Therapy for Insomnia (CBT-I). She explains why sleep is both biological and psychological, how we can unintentionally train ourselves to associate our beds with stress and wakefulness, and why there is no perfect sleep routine that works for everyone.
We also talk about overthinking at night, maintaining a consistent wake time, what to do when you can’t fall back asleep, creating a sleep-supportive environment, and how hormonal changes during perimenopause and menopause can affect sleep.
If you’ve been chasing the perfect bedtime routine but still aren’t sleeping well, this conversation may help you look at sleep in a completely different way.
In This Episode, We Cover:
- Why sleep affects so much more than how tired you feel the next day
- The relationship between poor sleep and mental health
- Why the “5 AM club” approach isn’t right for everyone
- How individual sleep needs can change with age and life circumstances
- Why sleep is both a biological process and a learned behavior
- How lying awake, worrying, and tossing and turning can reinforce poor sleep patterns
- Why overthinkers often struggle when everything finally gets quiet at night
- Jessica’s strategy for scheduling “worry time” before bed
- Why getting out of bed may be better than staying there trying to force yourself to sleep
- How to distinguish insomnia symptoms from potential signs of sleep apnea
- What Cognitive Behavioral Therapy for Insomnia (CBT-I) is
- Why a consistent wake-up time can be one of the most important parts of improving sleep
- Why sleeping in to “catch up” after a bad night can disrupt your rhythm
- How to create a simple wind-down buffer before bed
- Why temperature and light matter for sleep
- Why the perfect sleep environment may not be enough when your nervous system is on high alert
- The relationship between perimenopause, menopause, hormones, and sleep
- Why addressing sleep may require support from more than one type of practitioner
Sleep Is More Than Feeling Tired
We tend to think about poor sleep in terms of how we feel the next morning.
We’re tired. We’re foggy. We need more coffee. We don’t have the energy we normally have.
But Jessica explains that sleep reaches much further than our energy levels.
As a psychologist, she pays particular attention to the relationship between sleep and mental health. Poor sleep and insomnia are closely connected with conditions like anxiety and depression, and sleep difficulties can sometimes appear before other mental health symptoms.
Sleep also intersects with hormones and metabolic health, which is one of the reasons getting consistent, restorative sleep matters so much for our overall health.
This isn’t simply about getting enough hours so you can be productive tomorrow.
Sleep is one of the foundational systems supporting your physical and emotional health.
There Is No Perfect Sleep Schedule
One of my favorite parts of this conversation was Jessica’s take on the “5 AM club.”
We see these routines everywhere.
Wake up at 5 AM.
Work out.
Take the cold plunge.
Journal.
Meditate.
Get more done before everyone else wakes up.
And while that routine may work beautifully for one person, it doesn’t mean it’s healthy for everyone.
Jessica explains that healthy sleep needs are generally discussed within a range, but the exact amount an individual needs can vary depending on the person, their age, their circumstances, and what is happening in their life.
Trying to force yourself into somebody else’s sleep schedule can work against what your own body needs.
Your goal isn’t to become the person who wakes up earliest.
Your goal is to find a sleep pattern that actually supports your health.
You Can Train Yourself to Sleep Poorly
This was such an important distinction.
Our bodies know how to sleep.
But psychologically, sleep can also become a learned behavior.
That means we can unintentionally teach ourselves patterns that make sleeping harder.
Think about what happens when you repeatedly lie in bed unable to sleep.
You toss.
You turn.
You start thinking about tomorrow.
You worry about how tired you’re going to be.
You look at the clock.
You try harder to fall asleep.
And eventually, your brain begins associating your bed with being awake, alert, worried, and frustrated.
Instead of your bed becoming a cue for sleep, it becomes a cue for stress.
Jessica explains that breaking this association is an important part of addressing insomnia.
The goal is to help your brain relearn what your bed is supposed to represent.
Sleep.
Why Overthinkers Struggle at Night
If your brain suddenly decides bedtime is the perfect opportunity to review every problem in your life, you’re definitely not alone.
During the day, we’re distracted.
We’re working.
We’re answering messages.
We’re taking care of our families.
We’re running businesses.
There is always something competing for our attention.
Then everything gets quiet.
Suddenly, your brain has room to bring up all the things you haven’t processed yet.
For someone who already tends toward worrying or rumination, bedtime can become the moment when those thoughts get louder.
One strategy Jessica recommends is intentionally creating space for those thoughts earlier.
Rather than waiting until your head hits the pillow, schedule time after dinner to think through what’s worrying you.
Write it down.
Identify the next step you can take.
Give the thought somewhere to go.
You’re not trying to solve your entire life before bedtime.
You’re showing your brain that the problem has been acknowledged and there is a plan for dealing with it.
What to Do When You Can’t Sleep
This advice sounds completely backwards at first.
If you can’t sleep, get out of bed.
Jessica explains that staying in bed worrying, stressing, tossing, and turning can reinforce the exact association you’re trying to break.
You’re teaching your brain that bed is where you stay awake and struggle.
Instead, get up.
Go somewhere else.
Do something relatively mindless that you enjoy until you begin feeling sleepy again.
Jessica even explains that, in the context of this approach, she would rather someone get out of bed and watch television than stay in bed desperately trying to force sleep while becoming increasingly frustrated.
The goal is not to reward yourself for being awake.
It’s to stop reinforcing the connection between your bed and wakefulness.
Could It Be More Than Insomnia?
Not every nighttime awakening is caused by insomnia.
Jessica also discusses some signs that may warrant talking with a healthcare professional about obstructive sleep apnea.
If you’re frequently waking during the night and also experiencing symptoms such as loud snoring, gasping for air, morning headaches, or waking with a dry mouth, it may be worth discussing a sleep study with your healthcare provider.
This is another reason why getting appropriate support matters.
You don’t want to spend months trying to “fix” your sleep routine if there is another underlying sleep issue that needs to be evaluated.
What Is CBT-I?
Jessica specializes in Cognitive Behavioral Therapy for Insomnia, commonly called CBT-I.
Rather than relying solely on medication to manage insomnia, CBT-I looks at both the behaviors and thought patterns that may be contributing to sleep difficulties.
Jessica describes it as a relatively short-term, structured form of therapy, often completed over approximately six to eight weekly sessions, although treatment needs vary by person.
The process can involve changing behaviors around sleep, rebuilding the association between bed and sleeping, addressing worry and rumination, and helping people understand the psychological patterns that may be keeping insomnia going.
For someone who feels like they’ve tried every sleep hygiene tip imaginable without getting lasting results, looking at the behavioral and psychological side of sleep may be the missing piece.
Stop Trying to Catch Up on Sleep
After a terrible night of sleep, sleeping in feels completely logical.
You’re exhausted.
Your body missed sleep.
Why wouldn’t you stay in bed longer and catch up?
Jessica explains that constantly changing your wake time can disrupt your rhythm and make the next night more difficult.
One of the strongest anchors you can give your sleep schedule is consistency in the morning.
Rather than obsessing over the exact time you fall asleep, Jessica encourages people to pay attention to when they get up.
Set a regular wake time.
Get up at approximately the same time each day.
And resist constantly shifting your schedule based on how well you slept the night before.
One bad night doesn’t necessarily need to become several bad nights.
Sometimes our attempts to compensate for poor sleep are what keep the pattern going.
Give Your Brain Time to Wind Down
You cannot expect your brain to go from full-speed work mode to sleep in thirty seconds.
If you’ve been answering emails, working on your business, scrolling on your phone, solving problems, or thinking about tomorrow right up until bedtime, your brain may still be activated when you lie down.
Jessica recommends creating at least a short buffer before sleep.
Even thirty minutes can give your brain an opportunity to transition.
The goal isn’t to create an elaborate two-hour nighttime routine filled with ten different wellness practices.
It’s simply to give yourself a period where you are intentionally disengaging from the activities that keep your brain switched on.
Your Sleep Environment Matters, But It Isn’t Everything
Temperature and light can absolutely support sleep.
Jessica recommends keeping your bedroom cool and comfortable, with research often pointing toward temperatures around 67 to 68 degrees Fahrenheit for many sleepers.
Darkness can also help.
Dimming the lights in the evening gives your body additional environmental cues that nighttime is approaching.
But there is an important caveat.
You can have the perfect temperature.
The perfect blackout curtains.
The perfect eye mask.
The perfect wind-down routine.
And still struggle to sleep if your nervous system is highly activated.
If you’re lying in bed hypervigilant and on edge, your body’s arousal system may be competing with your ability to settle into sleep.
Sleep hygiene can support the process.
It cannot always solve the underlying problem by itself.
Perimenopause, Menopause, and Sleep
Jessica’s path into sleep psychology actually began through women’s health research focused on sleep and the menopausal transition.
That made this part of our conversation especially interesting to me.
Hormonal changes during perimenopause and menopause can significantly change a woman’s experience of sleep.
Jessica discusses estrogen’s role in sleep and why changes during this stage of life can contribute to sleep disruption.
But there can also be a second layer.
Once sleep becomes difficult, we naturally start worrying about it.
We compensate.
We change our routines.
We try harder.
And some of those psychological and behavioral responses can begin perpetuating the sleep problem even when hormones were part of what triggered it initially.
That is why Jessica advocates for a collaborative approach.
For some women, that may mean working with a psychologist or sleep specialist alongside a gynecologist, menopause specialist, physician, or other appropriate healthcare practitioner.
There isn’t always one single solution.
You Don’t Have to Keep Fighting Your Sleep
One of the biggest messages I took from this conversation is that struggling with sleep doesn’t mean you simply need more discipline.
You don’t necessarily need another supplement.
You don’t necessarily need another complicated nighttime routine.
And you definitely don’t need to force yourself into somebody else’s 5 AM schedule because social media told you that successful people wake up before sunrise.
Sometimes the behaviors we use to compensate for poor sleep are actually helping the pattern continue.
Understanding those patterns gives you something you can work with.
If sleep has become a nightly battle, consider getting support from someone who specializes in sleep rather than continuing to experiment on your own.
Your Action Step
Pay attention to what happens around your sleep for the next several days.
Not just what time you go to bed.
Ask yourself:
Do I stay in bed worrying when I can’t sleep?
Do I dramatically change my wake time after a bad night?
Am I carrying work and stress directly into bedtime?
Am I trying to follow someone else’s “perfect” sleep schedule?
Do I spend the day worrying about whether I’ll sleep tonight?
You don’t need to change everything at once.
Start by noticing the patterns.
If those patterns have been going on for a long time or your sleep is significantly affecting your health and daily life, consider speaking with a qualified sleep professional about whether CBT-I or another form of evaluation may be appropriate.
Final Thoughts
Sleep is foundational.
It affects how you think, how you feel, how you show up for your family, and how much energy you have to build the business and life you want.
And better sleep isn’t necessarily about creating the perfect nighttime routine.
Sometimes it starts with understanding what your brain has learned about sleep and changing the behaviors that are keeping you stuck.
You can optimize your room.
You can buy the eye mask.
You can turn down the temperature.
But if your nervous system is on high alert and your brain has learned that getting into bed means worrying for three hours, there is another layer that needs attention.
That’s why I loved this conversation with Jessica.
It reminds us to stop chasing perfection and start understanding what our bodies and brains actually need.
Resources
Connect with Jessica Meers
Jessica Meers is a licensed psychologist specializing in insomnia and helping people improve sleep without relying solely on medication. Her practice is based in Houston, Texas, with both in-person and virtual care.
Instagram: @SHeTalksSleep
Website: rhythm-well.com
If you’re experiencing persistent sleep problems, consider speaking with a qualified healthcare provider or sleep specialist for individualized evaluation and treatment.
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